Digital-First Leadership

Narrator:

Welcome to Digital-First Leadership. The podcast that focuses on helping leaders and teams understand how to master the language of social media in today's digital-first world. In this episode, Richard sits down with Hang Black, the VP of revenue enablement at Juniper Networks, and author of recent book titled, Embrace Your Edge. Focusing on inclusivity and accessibility.

Like many of the high performing executives, Richard sat down with over the years, Hang was tentative to take on the digital leadership approach. During their conversation, Hang uses her talent for storytelling to impactfully demonstrate how quickly embracing the online community can change the course of a career.

Richard:

Hang, I want to say thank you very much for joining me. It is always a pleasure to get together with you.

Hang Black:

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Richard:

Well, there's so many things that you and I could talk about. We've known each other for a very long time. And what we want to talk about though, is this idea of digital presence of an identity online, but let's help your audience understand where you've come from and where you are today.

Hang Black:

Well, thank you for asking. I was an engineer for nearly 10 years, and my career accelerated pretty quickly at the beginning as it does with a lot of high achievers. But at some point your career can plateau. And I moved into marketing and sales just because I like to say I went into engineering because I like solving hard problems and I like numbers. And I went into sales because I like numbers with dollar signs in front of them a lot more. But the thing was my career plateaued, not because of my career shift, but just circumstantially environment, timing, et cetera, et cetera. By the time I exited that career path, I then had nearly a decade in one large company, and over a decade in another large company and I hadn't built my network.

Hang Black:

And that was right around the time that I met you, I started my own company, I did everything sales and marketing consulting. I was nicknamed Black Ops, as you know. And I really found my wings at that point, from the perspective of consulting with a lot of companies and understanding more and more use cases from B2B to B2C, from small company to large company. But I also was very fortunate to run into you a couple of times, and you taught me about digital brand and digital presence. And for me at the time, if you don't remember, I was a complete curmudgeon about that stuff. Argh! Brilliant. Networking. I need to go take a bath.

Richard:

I know you say that now, but I got to tell you, that wasn't my impression, but that's because we had the pleasure of meeting each other in-person, and you have a very strong presence and very compelling. And so that part shown through, and you're right, your digital online presence was lacking or absent, but it wasn't something that really I had noticed because we had the opportunity to meet on fairly regular basis after that one-on-one. But that's, I think when you started to draw from me, some of those things that you felt you needed to change in your online presence, right?

Hang Black:

That's right. That's completely right. I would say that I was one of those pathetic souls whose LinkedIn bio, if you looked it up, had no banner, no photo, even I might have a name and a title. Probably it looks like my son's today and he's only 17.

Richard:

Probably. What's happened then is that, yes, we met, I can remember it very clearly. It was for an event that you had planned. And after that, we talked on occasion. And I got to admit, at the time I didn't realize just how much you were absorbing and taking in, because now today it's a dramatic change from where you were. And it's been a short amount of time. I know we've known each other for years, but it was just a few years ago that you started to make this transition. Help the audience understand what that transition was like, and how much effort and time it took?

Hang Black:

Sure. So you and I met about six years ago, I think. And I don't think we actually started talking about digital presence until, I don't know, maybe four years ago. And I was still trying to get over the hump about, I don't really like networking and brand, like can't I just work hard and do good work? but what I learned was it's not just what you know, it's not just who you know, it's who knows what you know.

Richard:

Interesting. I like that.

Hang Black:

In order to expand your networking and your credibility for those who don't have access like me, I'm an immigrant. I was newish to the Bay area, even though I'd been in the technology industry forever. At the time physical presence was extremely important, and I just wasn't putting myself out there. So that's on me, that's the accountability. So about four years ago, I started just developing the brand, and I kept evolving it and I started getting more comfortable with it.

Hang Black:

And I'll tell you a little secret just between us and your audience. I had also learned to be able to identify when a work environment is challenging me and pushing me to be better. And when it's just flat out toxic. So once I realized I was in a toxic environment, I cried for two days and I wrote a killer, killer LinkedIn post. I got three job offers within three weeks. That elevated my title by two levels. And that was only three years ago.

Hang Black:

I like to share with everyone, because I think it's really, really important. Even if you don't have access with the internet, with the digitalization of communication, we have really democratized access to platform. So don't complain that you don't have a voice when you are not taking the opportunity to use the voice that you do have. So I created my own voice and brought other people along.

Richard:

And I like what you've said there, opportunity, because what I teach and present to the executives I work with, you and I have had this conversation multiple times, and that is prepare now for the opportunity that's going to present itself because it will present itself. But now it's not going to present itself in the traditional manner, it is going to be unforeseen, unexpected quarters, something simply by putting yourself out there and developing that persona, which is what you did to do that.

Richard:

Now, there's a flip side to that, right? Because it's not just opportunity. There are times of crisis that every leader will experience. As the time of this recording, there's a bit of a crisis that you're responding to, that I'd like to delicately talk about if you're willing. And that is what's happening in the Asian community right now.

Hang Black:

Absolutely. Asians have notoriously been very silent. And the little voice that we have has often been fragmented. At the time of this recording, this is about a week after the Georgia murders. And although it deeply saddens me, I've also been anticipating it for months. And it is a little bit odd to me that it takes an incident with only, and I say only, "Eight total people."

Hang Black:

Whereas this has been happening to my Asian community, one to two people at a time every week for the last year. My people are literally getting lit on fire in the streets. My grandmothers and grandfathers are being pushed down. And so when this occurred, I got called on by the Asian community because of my presence on LinkedIn and because of my developing presence on Clubhouse, to join these conversations. And within 30 minutes of writing my article, I got picked up by LinkedIn News, and it just went viral.

Hang Black:

We're now creating on Friday, I'm a part of a group of Asian leaders who are trying to mobilize and consolidate the Asian voice, so that we can create a singular movement that everyone can get behind. And it's only because I had that platform and voice already. And the reason I was getting called upon was because these other leaders and groups were hungry. They were saying, "There's so few VP plus level women in the Fortune 500. And we need more business leaders, not just..." No offense Richard, but not more white men. "But Hang, you can bring on the white men. You can attract the white men. You can actually help bring them on in their understanding, allyship, awareness and their voice, but we need more people like you to bring the credibility." So think of me as again, overstating the MLK to other peoples JFK's. But they wanted my presence there. And it's only because I've built that platform.

Richard:

And that's a very valid point is that I hammer this home. You and I have talked about this, and that is, you need to prepare, start now. It's never too late, but start now focus on developing that voice, getting yourself out there, putting your time out there. You just wrote a book that also is out there, Embrace Your Edge. Tell us a little bit about the book.

Hang Black:

The book is called Embrace Your Edge: Pave Your Own Path as an Immigrant Woman in the Workplace. And it is specifically about creating your own access. Many of us who are climbing, whatever achievement we are striving for, we start at the base of the mountain. And what we find is other people have access that we weren't even aware neatly needed, or we weren't even aware perhaps existed. So I think of it as, women carry the extra burden of being the primary caregiver, even if they're working and even if they are the primary breadwinner, it doesn't matter, they in general often carry more of the load at home.

Hang Black:

Now, immigrants also carry the extra burden of having to take care of their elders in their community who don't come with 401Ks and pensions, or if they're not with us in the U.S., then we send money back to take care of them in the country. So both populations have this extra responsibility and they also carry with them extra bias. And I don't know if you're aware of the studies that when we celebrate gender, often race gets marginalized; when we celebrate race, gender gets marginalized.

Hang Black:

So then you have these folks that are caught in this double minority situation. So the question is, how do I lift myself out of the abyss? Well, the answer is, just suck it up. Life isn't fair, and the moment you recognize that, then you're able to move on and say, "What can I do about it?" Well, what you can do about it from a professional perspective is to take ownership of your own brand and curate your own network and create your own access. That's my message to everyone, and it can happen.

Richard:

It can. And so here's the question that people are going to ask. They're like, "I don't have anything to say, what do I have to say? Hang, you've obviously got some passion. You're out there. Look at you. You're important. Who am I?" And so how do you respond to that pushback of, "Yeah, it's easy for you." I'm just saying, I know it's not, but that's sometimes the pushback because they see you, you're out there. You've got the book, you've got the platform, you've got the presence. So obviously it's easy for you to have something to say, but what do you say to them?

Hang Black:

I can tell them. And I've been asked this so many times, my book pages 131 to 136. All kidding aside, just remember six years ago, I was an individual contributor with a very lowly title. And I just gotten laid off for the third time, from the same company, never for performance, always for reorganization. So you can start from literally nowhere. And you just have to understand what your superpower is. Now, that's really hard to develop and understand your superpower. So it starts with a lot of self-awareness and I give people a lot of tools in the book of how to find your values, your strengths, your superpowers. Everyone has a passion. And once you have find that passion, you'll be able to find your voice.

Richard:

Let's take something from the book. Let's give our audience something from the book that they could take away from them. That maybe it's, how do you find your superpower? How do I know it? How do I even recognize that I have it? Because I like that people can resonate with that. What would you say?

Hang Black:

I have 10 questions in the book and I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Richard:

One, do you got one?

Hang Black:

But it's why do you do what you do? We'll steal Simon Sinek's Start with Why. Why do you do what you do? Who does what you do? Why do you do better than them? So that's just a teaser.

Richard:

I like that. I like that because it causes me to reflect on myself. Because I'm thinking about myself and I know that the audience is probably listening going, "Oh, yeah. What do you do better?" And I encounter people who are like, "I don't have anything." And I got to tell you, I have very little patience for people like that because it's like, you're not being honest with yourself. You're just being false modesty.

Richard:

Look, stop and ask yourself. And I tell people, look, if you have trouble asking, go ask your mother. She will certainly tell you what you're good at, because they've seen it in you since you were a child. But yes, I like that. Go find out that why and ask what it is that you-

Hang Black:

I'll make it a little bit a fun of myself.

Richard:

Okay.

Hang Black:

I took Carla Harris's advice to look for my three adjectives. And I asked about 15 people. My mom, only one or two of my eight siblings, my children, some colleagues, some mentors, all people that I really, really respected. And this is really key, ask people who are your supporters, not your diminishers. I asked them to give three adjectives without context. I said, when you think of me, give me three adjectives that you think of me. And before I got feedback from them, I had written down my list.

Richard:

Interesting.

Hang Black:

I got all the feedback back and I created then I put them all in a spreadsheet, like a nice little engineering work, and I created themes out of them. And when I walked away, and this took a period of two or three months and evolved, but when it finalize, it was like, it's become my mantra, which I really believe is my superpower; curious, courageous and capable. Would you say that's accurate?

Richard:

Knowing you, when you say courageous, the word I hear is fearless, because that would be one of the words that would be, yes, absolutely. And the fact that you have continually look for ways to turn over rocks and say, "What's this? Where's that?" And those rocks are virtual rocks in your life where you've turned them over to reinvent yourself or to expand your capabilities. Absolutely, those are great words to describe who you are. And I think that's a great exercise for anyone to do, is to have the courage to ask. Sometimes people are just afraid to ask, aren't they? They're afraid to find out. And having that courage to actually do that, I think is awesome.

Hang Black:

Yeah. When you have courage, it's also about having the vulnerability to ask, to admit that you don't know all the answers.

Richard:

Yep. I think humility and vulnerability come together that you're willing to take that. And that's why I often recommend your mother because our mothers love us and they want what's best. Sometimes they say words that make us angry or upset, but they're really trying their best to do well for us.

Richard:

Hang, I want to say thank you so much for spending some time with us talking about some of the issues that are very personal and dear to your heart right now, as you're working on that. If people wanted to find out more information or where to find about the book itself, where would you recommend they go to find out more about you?

Richard:

Go to HangWithHang.com. A lot of rich content on there. You'll see a foreword by Carla Harris. You'll see endorsements by the CEO of Zoom, the CEO of Juniper Networks, among other awesome things. A few little gifts that you can download. And you can also find me Thursdays weekly on Clubhouse @HangWithHang.

Richard:

HangWithHang, that's H-A-N-G with H-A-N-G. So Hang, thank you so much for joining me today. I've really appreciated it.

Hang Black:

Thanks for your time.

Narrator:

You've been listening to Digital-First Leadership, the podcast where you learn to leverage and build your expertise on digital platforms. For more valuable tips on mastering the language of social media, subscribe to our newsletter @blisspointconsult.com. If you'd like to stay in touch, feel free to add Richard on LinkedIn and join the conversation.